Wealth of Wisdom Podcast
The Wealth of Wisdom podcast is meant to be an audio companion to the Wealth of Wisdom book. Each episode involves Tom or Keith interviewing one of the over 50 top global thinkers on family wealth that have contributed essays to the book. The interviews are intended to be conversations where the contributors will get a chance to talk about themselves, their work, and the ideas in their specific chapter in the book. We think there is real value in these interviews and we hope that everyone enjoys them.
In this special 50th episode of the Wealth of Wisdom podcast, co-editors Tom McCullough and Keith Whitaker are interviewed by Scott Dickenson on their experience writing Wealth of Wisdom and recording 50 podcast episodes since October 2018. Tom and Keith discuss their favourite chapters from the book, the topics that have resonated the most with readers, and what specific skills and ideas that each of them brought to the project. They also cover how the podcast came to be and some of their most memorable interviews over the last year and a half. We hope you enjoy this special 50th episode of the podcast and that it inspires you to go back and listen to some of the previous episodes that you might have missed the first time around.
How can you think through the use of wealth that exceeds your personal needs? This is a perennial question to which Paul Schervish applies the perennial insights of St. Ignatius. In this conversation with Keith Whitaker, Paul shares elements of the ‘discernment process’ and its application to the disposition of wealth. He also talks about how discernment takes into account the joys and anxieties wealth-holders feel about the impact of wealth on others. And he even recounts some of the challenges he faced in a career of studying wealth and philanthropy within academia. This is a useful discussion for anyone seeking to connect wealth with deeper purpose.
In this week’s episode of the Wealth of Wisdom Podcast, Tom interviews investing legend Howard Marks on his chapter from the book entitled, “How should private investors understand and deal with investment risk?” Howard is a well-known investor, speaker and author on the topic of investing and risk. Listen as Tom and Howard engage in a wide-ranging conversation on the current market environment, his thoughts on investor behaviour, the trend towards passive investing, and how his memos to clients became must-read material for the entire investment community.
In this episode, Tom McCullough interviews Meir Statman, well-known author and professor at Santa Clara University who specializes in behavioral finance. We talk about what behavioral finance really means and how it impacts the lives of families of wealth. Meir also talks about his chapter in Wealth of Wisdom answering the question “What is the right balance between saving and spending in retirement?” In his research interviews with couples in retirement age, he finds that many have more than enough money to pay for whatever they need, without risk of running out of money before running out of life. Yet they resist, insisting that they cannot afford these services. Why do people behave this way? Can they change? Should they change? Fascinating conversation with a remarkable person.
How much should we give our children and when? That’s probably the most common question that parents with wealth ask. In this interview with Keith Whitaker, Peter Evans, a leading personne de confiance to wealthy families, takes on that question directly. He discusses the importance of not giving significant financial resources to children before they have become mature and independent. He also describes tools that families can use to learn about themselves–the surprising key, Peter argues, for long-term family success.
Dean Fowler is one of the founders and leaders of the field of family business consulting. In this conversation with Keith Whitaker, Dean shares his perspective on how the field has changed over the last 35 years. He also describes the seven habits that he has found help prepare successors in families with business or wealth to succeed as family leaders. Dean discusses strategies for successors to establish their own independence and reshape family communication patterns, as well as to learn how to manage financial risk. He also talks about how to apply the seven habits in families with financial wealth and to situations where, due to longevity, multiple generations are in the process of succession. This is a rich and rewarding conversation for anyone interested in family business and family wealth transitions.
In this episode, Tom McCullough interviews Chris Brightman, Chief Investment Officer of Research Affiliates, who discusses the rates of return investors can expect from their investment portfolios. Of course no one can predict exactly what returns will be, particularly over short periods of time, but in this conversation Chris lays out a fact-based, time-tested approach that will help families and advisors plan for the future. In this conversation, Chris also shares how he set up a diversified all-weather portfolio for his own adult children that is likely to deliver results and be resilient over time.
Lisa Parker is president and executive director of the Lawrence Welk Family Foundation, which was established by her grandfather, the world-famous entertainer and entrepreneur. In this interview with Keith Whitaker, Lisa talks about lessons she learned from her work with the second, third, and fourth generations of her family, as well as what she’s learned from other families about how to engage children and grandchildren in philanthropy. Along the way, Lisa addresses the challenge of navigating family members’ different interests, stages of life, and values. This is a great conversation for listeners seeking to deepen their families’ commitment to giving as generations.
EPISODE 42: Greg McCann – How Can Your Family Develop Leaders Ready to Face the Many Challenges of Business and Family?
Family business consultant and educator Greg McCann has decades of experience consulting to other families and helping to run his own family’s business. In this interview with Keith Whitaker he shares insights into a key challenge for every family enterprise: how to develop leaders. Greg describes the elements of vertical leadership development. He also offers a wealth of tips and practices that families can immediately put to work in developing leadership in all aspects of individual member’s lives.
What is the point of family governance? Many a first-generation family leader has asked this question with some doubt that there is a point. Family business consultant Katherine Grady ably describes in this podcast how governance plays an essential role in the well-being of businesses and families that last for generations. In her interview with Keith Whitaker, Katherine describes the main structures of family governance–the Board and the Owner’s Council–and their roles, as well as the perhaps surprising fact that family governance may be even more important for families who have sold their operating business and are now trying to manage a foundation, family office, or investable wealth together as a family.
How do you prepare for a good goodbye? That is, the final goodbye, death. That is the fundamental question that Kathy Wiseman takes up in this podcast and her contribution to Wealth of Wisdom. In her conversation with co-editor Keith Whitaker, Kathy talks about the role of the study of anxiety in her work with families, and she draws several lessons from her experience about how to raise the question of death with aging family members and other relatives. Kathy also shares the wisdom that, while we all know that this topic is an important and difficult one, it can be handled by families in a way that provides for a good death for family members who pass away and for stronger relationships for those family members who remain.
In this episode, Tom interviews Mary Duke about family meetings. Families are very complex ‘organizations’ all on their own, and the addition of wealth brings even more complexity. Families also face many changes over time – some predictable and some unexpected – which adds tends to add stress. So, good communication is key and family meetings are a helpful way to keep members in the loop and make decisions together. Mary offers practical guidance on using family meetings effectively. What are the benefits of a family meeting? Should every family have them? What should be on the agenda? Where should they be held? Who should and shouldn’t be invited? Should you use a facilitator? What should the ground rules be?
In this episode, Tom talks to Ashvin Chhabra (one of the fathers of goals-based investing) about ‘how you can make sure your portfolio lines up with your actual goals?’ This probably sounds obvious, but it is not commonly practiced in real life. In fact Ashvin argues that investing is not really about the markets at all – it’s about you, the investor. He show how you can organize your balance sheet into categories based on your goals and then fund each of those buckets with asset classes that are most likely to deliver success. A great conversation!
Lee Hausner is one of the leaders in the field of family wealth and business. In this conversation with Keith Whitaker she shares insight on what makes families thrive, when parents should consider telling their children about wealth and how, when parents should begin giving their children access to family funds, and how to manage the question of giving fairly versus equally to the rising generation. She also offers practical direction on using family meetings to communicate and manage the family’s affairs.
When should a family call it quits and go their separate ways? How can a family even think about this painful question? In this podcast, Keith Whitaker speaks with family business consultant Doug Baumoel about these fundamental questions, ones that, from time to time, any family that is managing a business or wealth together have to face. Doug reviews the concept of the ‘family factor’, which measures a family’s ability to navigate change together, based on shared history, shared vision, and trust. He also talks about ways to raise, in a productive manner, the question of whether to stay together or not, and he shares examples in which families actually found ways to separate without mutually-assured destruction.
Business, wealth, family, and life itself all have a way of drawing our attention away from what matters most to what matters now, from the important to the urgent. In this episode, Tom talks to Thayer Willis whose chapter answers the question: What are the key considerations in crafting your legacy? Thayer offers a path to answering that question for yourself. It begins with identifying and clarifying your values, determining how you can better exemplify your values and priorities, and examples of specific ways to talk about these important issues with your heirs.
EPISODE 34: Jill Shipley – How Do You Raise Responsible, Independent, and Productive Children (versus Entitled Trust Fund Babies)?
Jill Shipley’s chapter in Wealth of Wisdom is titled, ‘How Do You Raise Responsible, Independent, and Productive Children (versus Entitled Trust Fund Babies)?’. When working with wealthy families, this question comes up as often as any other question covered in the 50 chapters of the book. In this episode, Tom McCullough interviews Jill on what she thinks the best practices are for wealthy parents when it comes to raising their children. From thinking about how children mirror their parent’s behaviours, to investing in learning and fostering a reason to get off the couch, Jill covers some great starting points for families thinking about these issues.
Though it may not be – nor should it be – the first question families ask, is often one of the most important ones when it comes to the management of their financial assets: What should my asset allocation be? When it comes to wealthy families, we can think of no better person to answer that question than Jean Brunel, the managing principal of Brunel Associates. In this wide ranging conversation, Tom McCullough talks with Jean on the goals based approach to investing and asset allocation, and his decades of work with ultra high net worth families.
Life is complicated and it gets more so as wealth increases. At the same time, navigating the world of investments, financial products and planning is becoming more challenging every day. You can’t be good at everything, so it is probably inevitable that you will have to rely on advisors with key technical skill and practical experience at some point. What do you do when you think you have found a good advisor, but you’re not sure? In this episode Tom McCullough talks with Bob Dannhauser, the head of global private wealth management at the CFA Institute, about how investors can find qualified advisors, avoid the next Bernie Madoff and, in the words of Ronald Reagan, learn to “trust, but verify.”
What are tools to build healthy families? That’s the question that Keith Whitaker discusses with Christian Stewart in this podcast. Christian is a non-practicing solicitor in Hong Kong who consults with global families around family governance. Among other things, Christian describes exercises he uses with families around managing difficult conversations and expressing gratitude. He also talks about how advisors can develop a comfort level in deploying these tools with their families.
In world where it is pretty much assumed you need a specialized and complex strategy to be a sophisticated investor, Robert Maynard argues that a simple, transparent and focused approach is a viable and successful alternative. He runs the $17 billion Public Employee Retirement fund for the state of Idaho and practices what he preaches. In this interview, Bob talks about the three ways to make money, the importance of understanding your goals, and the role of active management, among many other fascinating topics.
In common law countries, a very large proportion of wealth will be held in trusts by the third generation. As such, finding and retaining good trustees will be increasingly important. Yet, somehow, family trusts often preserve a family’s financial assets, yet fail to preserve either family or trust. Hartley Goldstone, a trained lawyer and an experienced consultant to trusts and trustees, talks about how families can source great trustees and how trustees can ensure they fulfill their important responsibilities. He also shares the results of his substantial research and interviews with beneficiaries and trustees on what works most effectively and does the most good.
John Davis is a household name in the world of families and business. He is one of the creators of the three circle model, which has been a helpful tool for understanding how families, managers and owners interact in family enterprises for over 40 years. In this episode, John talks about how he found his way into this work, the history of the three circle model, why family unity is important and how it can be built, and the future of enterprising families.
In this interview, renowned investor Charley Ellis pulls no punches. Active managers, he says, cannot beat the market on a consistent basis. Fifty years ago, Charley argues, institutions did less than 10% of total NYSE trading, and individuals did more than 90%, and beating the market was probable for well-informed professionals. Today, full-time professionals who are constantly comparison-shopping inside the market for any competitive advantage are executing more than 98% of trades in listed stocks, and nearly 100% of derivative transactions, which makes it almost impossible for the average manager or investor to outperform. A fascinating conversation about investment performance, fees, and the future of active management for private investors.
Even as passive investing continues to rise in popularity, many families struggle with the choice of active versus passive. In this podcast Harvard Business School professor Randy Cohen, a close researcher of investment returns, argues that there’s no going back to the days when famous managers could ‘beat’ efficient public markets. However, Cohen does identify four strategies that–with patience and the right advice–families should consider in order to achieve outsized returns with a significant part of their portfolios.
Risk is a commonly misunderstood concept – even more so for private clients, who have to operate in world that is increasingly tilted toward institutions and professional investors. In this interview, long-time investor Jim Garland, who shepherded the Jeffrey family portfolio for many years, provides his guidance on how families should think about investing and how they can manage risk. The way Jim thinks, risk means the possibility of not having available the money you need at the time when you need it. And you definitely want to hear his analogy about ‘Chicken farmers’ and ‘Egg farmers’.
All parents want their children to learn good values. But what do we mean by values? And how are they learnt? These are just a couple of the questions that Ellen Perry takes on in her chapter and this podcast interview with Keith Whitaker. Ellen also discusses what families can do when there are real disagreements over values or the choices that those values lead to, as well as specific activities that parents and grandparents can use to prompt productive conversations among their family members about the values they hold dear.
EPISODE 23: Dennis Jaffe – How Can You Engage Your Children in the Management of Your Family Wealth or Business?
There are strong forces against family business continuity. So every enterprise must find ways to engage the rising generation. In this interview with Tom McCullough, Dennis Jaffe talks about how business families can increase the critical elements of connection, transparency, capability, and commitment. He also highlights some of the best practices around designing and holding effective family meetings, which can help to sustain these family building blocks.
EPISODE 22: Josh Baron and Rob Lachenauer – What Are the Signs You’re Losing Control of Your Family Business?
This podcast demolishes the myths that family businesses are beset by conflict and poised to fail. Instead, Josh Baron and Rob Lachenauer outline ways that family business owners can learn to practice “active ownership” and thereby materialize the true value that they bring to the business. In this interview with Keith Whitaker, they also discuss the signs that you’re losing control of your family business and what to do about it.
In the first chapter of the book, Patricia Angus tells a fascinating story about a conversation she had with a cab driver about wealth and life and asks the question – “Are you wealthy?” This question may seem at first blush easy to answer, just a quantitative matter. But of course it all depends on what you mean by “wealth”. In this conversation with Tom McCullough, she invites listeners to think through that question in ways far beyond money, including the impact that each of us has on the world around us.
What is the meaning of life? Why are we here? What opportunities–and challenges–does financial wealth pose for living well? These are just some of the questions that Rev. Scotty McLennan takes on in this wide-ranging discussion with Keith Whitaker, which also makes the case that reading well is key to living well.
There are few topics more important and more challenging than family communication. Jennifer East is an advisor to business families and brings unique perspective to the topic. In this conversation with Tom McCullough, Jennifer talks about her own experience growing up in an entrepreneurial family and what she has seen in the many families she has worked with. She offers practical, concrete steps for improving family communication, which come down to good planning, structure, and the courage to take action.
EPISODE 18: Suniya Luthar and Nina Kumar – How Can You Help Children Thrive in a World Focused on Success?
What greater asset can there be than our children? Yet the desire for “enrichment” can often lead to children feeling pressured by the expectation for achievement. Psychologist Suniya Luthar and her daughter Nina Kumar have studied, written on, and lived the complexities of this experience. In this podcast with Keith Whitaker, they share what parents should look for and practices that they can use to help young children and teenagers navigate the complexity of school, sports, friends, and wealth.
Some families have determined that they could benefit from the integrated objective approach offered by a family office, which then leads to another set of questions such as “Should you choose a single‐ family office or a multi‐ family office?” In this interview with Tom McCullough, family office expert Kirby Rosplock walks us through a thoughtful, reasoned, and personally relevant way to make this decision. She also offers some handy evaluation tools to understand the choices.
EPISODE 16: Ellen Remmer – What Is the Difference Between Charity, Philanthropy, Strategic Philanthropy, and Impact Investing?
Do you ever worry that you haven’t found your philanthropic “passion”? Ellen Remmer, who has led one of the world’s most innovative philanthropic consulting groups, challenges that concern right from the start of her interview with Keith Whitaker. Ellen talks about philanthropy as a journey that involves much experimentation, with learning from success and failures. She also supplements her chapter’s definition of several key philanthropic terms with special attention to impact investing, which she sees as a way for families to make the most out of all their resources, not just their tax-exempt ones.
Dirk Jungé is a leader and pioneer in the family office field, providing leadership to his family’s firm, Pitcairn, for many years. Dirk was kind enough to write the foreword for Wealth of Wisdom. In this episode, he talks to Tom McCullough about how wealth is an amplifier of all things and how, if not properly tended, it can be a family’s undoing. And he tells many stories about experiences of client families and of his own (like “Rock Acres”) that have shaped his views of families and wealth.
Jay can rightly be said to be the founder of the field of family wealth. In this discussion he reflects on the journey that brought him to this work, his current role as an elder, and the paramount importance of elders for families who wish to succeed over generations. Jay also discusses the true meaning of the proverb “Shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations” (hint: it’s not just about money) and specific practices that families can and must adopt to face a future of radical changes.
There are few assets that generate as much emotional heat as a family vacation home or estate. Jamie Forbes knows the power of family vacation property through his growing up part of the Forbes family, with their shared estate of Naushon Island off Cape Cod, which has been in the family for over 150 years. In this podcast Jamie shares specific practices that his family and others use to strengthen family communication and decision-making. He also talks about what it is like to grow up as a member of a prominent family, both the positive and negative aspects of the experience.
This is a question that practically every parent asks, whether or not they have money. But wealth can deprive children of the natural education in financial literacy. Coventry Edwards-Pitt has written an entire book about how successful heirs develop healthy money skills. In this podcast she shares concrete practices that parents can adopt, whether you are parenting young children or adults.
Conflict is a normal part of family life. But it can be difficult to talk about and to manage, especially when significant wealth or a family business is involved. Blair Trippe is a counselor who has years of experience working with families in conflict. In this podcast Blair defines the different types of conflict, shares strategies for dealing with different forms of conflict, and talks about measuring the “family factor” needed to help families weather the usual slings and arrows that fortune sends their way.
Family unity sounds like a good thing, but in this podcast a senior advisor to families, Andrew Hier, argues that unity is in fact vital to the long term success of a family or its enterprise. In his conversation with Tom McCullough, Andrew talks about the corrosive effects of disunity (including disputes, divisions, mistrust, political maneuvering, entropy) that can fester and ultimately crush a family and its enterprise. Thankfully, Andrew also provides practical ideas on how to build and strengthen family unity.
EPISODE 9: Patricia Annino – How Can You Prepare for Longevity and Mental Incapacity Among Family Members?
With an increasingly aging population, families need to turn their attention (sooner rather than later) to the issues of mental competence. This may refer to the traditional problem of older family members living longer with diminished competence, but also to those who live longer in good shape with sustained competence (-think Queen Elizabeth). Both of these scenarios have significant consequences for families. Tom McCullough talks to lawyer and family advisor Patricia Annino about this critical topic and how families can anticipate and prepare for it.
Life is complicated, and it gets more so as wealth increases. While advisors are almost always necessary, it can be hard to find good one, with the the skills, experience, empathy and integrity you want. And, once found, it can be often difficult to manage them in a effective way that stays focused on the needs of the family. In this podcast, Tom McCullough has a fascinating conversation with Philip Marcovici, a retired lawyer and consultant to global families, about the challenge of finding and keeping effective advisors you can trust.
In this episode, Tom talks to contributing author Alex Scott, a business leader and a member of a multi-generational family of wealth from the UK. Alex answers the question ‘Can a Family Stay Together After the Operating Business Is Sold?’ with an enthusiastic ‘yes’. But of course that result does not come about without considerable intentionality and effort, so Alex describes some of the practices that worked well for his family and how other families might apply them. Note that this episode has a lot of relevance for families that don’t have operating businesses as well as those that do.
In this special episode of the podcast, Keith Whitaker (Tom’s co-author on Wealth of Wisdom) is interviewed by Scott Dickenson. Scott and Keith discuss Keith’s career, his past books, and his experience working with Tom while writing Wealth of Wisdom. Be sure to listen to the end, where Keith speaks about a few of his favourite essays in the new book, and what he hopes that families get from it.
EPISODE 5: James Grubman – How Do You Balance Family Stability with Resilience Over the Generations?
In this episode, Tom interviews contributing author Dr. James Grubman on his chapter in the book titled, ‘How Do You Balance Family Stability with Resilience Over the Generations?’. Jim is a psychologist and consultant to multi-generational families about the issues that arise around wealth. He shares from his own experience with families and talks about how they can successfully adapt to changing conditions over time, yet not lose the benefit of the values and skills from the past that got them to where they are today.
In this episode, Tom interviews contributor Barnaby Marsh on his chapter in the book titled, ‘How Can You Wisely Develop a Long-Term Strategy For Your Philanthropy?’. Barnaby is co-founder of the philanthropic services agency, Saint Partners. In this podcast, he reflects on the massive (and probably inevitable) societal changes we are going through, and how you can wisely develop a long-term strategy for your philanthropy in that context.
In this episode, Tom interviews contributor Heidi Druckemiller on her chapter in the book titled, ‘Does Family History Matter?’. Heidi is a senior consultant at The Winthrop Group and suggests that the story of your past can help you to discover your family’s unique values, shape its moral purpose, and direct its strategic decision-making. It will also, inevitably, give your life meaning in ways that you can’t yet imagine.
In this episode, Tom interviews contributor Scott Hayman on his chapter in the book titled, ‘Is It Worth Having a Financial Plan’. Scott is the President of Northwood Family Office and has been Tom’s business partner for the last 15 years. Scott discusses his thoughts on the benefits of having a financial plan and expands on some of the ideas he brings up in his chapter.
In the first episode of the podcast, Tom McCullough is interviewed by his colleague Scott Dickenson on the new book, where the idea for it came from, and how his co-author Keith Whitaker got involved. A great overview of what the book is about, who it is for, and what Tom hopes readers get from it.